Why am I the bad guy? 12.08.2011

I get a lot of comments on the way I communicate. That I'm arrogant, stubborn and intentionally confusing. A lot of people tend to think of me as a bad guy or a guy without emotions. Somebody who is set in his way and cannot be shaken or moved from his position, at all. A trickster who plays mind games with other people to make them think the same way he thinks.

This is so not true!

Why am I seen as the bad guy in these situations where I ask questions? The questions I ask are based on the same kind of stories and doctrine that other people are brought up with. Is it my fault that the answer to these questions are uncomfortable? Is it my fault that a person needs to come up with additions to a premise to make the outcome fit with what they believe or feel is the truth?

Let's examine a list of premises and the conclusion that follows: (Let me point out that in the views of a theists, all these points are absolute truths, you cannot go around these points)

A) God made everything in the universe
B) God is omniscient (all knowing)
C) God is omnipotent (all powerful)
D) God made adam and eve

X) God is responsible for the fall of adam and eve

Anybody examining this list of premises and conclusion who believe in God will say "That is not true!". When I ask them then to explain why, they rarely ever do. When they do, they need to add items to the premise list in order for it to reach a conclusion with which they are satisfied. Isn't that a little dishonest?

Their list will read something like:

A) God made everything in the universe
B) God is omniscient (all knowing)
C) God is omnipotent (all powerful)
D) God made adam and eve
E) God has a plan

X) God is not responsible for the fall of adam and eve because of his plan

Ok? So now we added that God supposedly has a plan, then immediately the question pops in my head "How does God having a plan somehow not make him not responsible for the fall of his own creation? If I make something with a plan to make it destroy itself, I still made it that way, and I'm still responsible for it acting that way.".

If I leave a cookie on the table while Maya is roaming around, can I honestly exclaim "Oh no! I never expected you to eat that delicious cookie right there on the table where you can see and reach it."

Alright, then a theist might come at it like this:

A) God made everything in the universe
B) God is omniscient (all knowing)
C) God is omnipotent (all powerful)
D) God made adam and eve
E) God has a plan
F) God gave us free will

X) God is not responsible for the fall of adam and eve because of his plan that everybody has free will to go decide whatever they want to do.

Alright, so now God is supposedly not responsible for the actions of people because of free will?

Question: Who created and gave us free will? Didn't God give us free will? If God is omniscient, is there anything that escapes him? Anything he doesn't know about? Can there therefor be anything God makes which he doesn't know everything about? No, there can't be. The only way you can have God create a thing which completely moves independently of God's will, is by taking out omniscience and omnipotence from God's attribute list. But if you do that, well, is he still God?

So does asking questions make me a bad trickster kind of person? Does pointing out that "Santa can't possibly fit through  a central heating pipe to bring gifts", equate to asking a trick question?

If the expanded premise lists make sense to you, please do explain it to me! because I don't see it. I cant see how you can love and admire a being which allows suffering and torture for some other "higher" purpose. Don't get me wrong, its not like I'm not willing to believe. But I do have to say, if you cannot explain this rationally to me how can you expect me to accept your claims? More importantly, how can you yourself continue to believe it, if you can't explain it?

The free will argument

This argument actually works. But there is one catch. When people use this argument, we aren't talking about a god with finite powers and abilities like Zeus or Odin.

Free will would be a perfect argument if we were talking about humans that Odin or Zeus would have created, they weren't omniscient or omnipotent. They were fooled or surprised all the time, they were quite human (duh). The god of the Abrahamic religions, however, IS omniscient and omnipotent. That is the reason why "free will" is not a real argument at all. If you believe otherwise, I'd love to know.